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Moon Phase

March 2019
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Bruce [userpic]

"Atheism: Being good because you want to, not because you're going to hell."

Occasionally Fark coughs up a good one-liner...

Current Location: The Duplex
Mood: amusedamused

nice! me likes it.

There are quite a few other cute ones, but they're more on the offensive side (it is Fark, after all).

Not that Lucinda wouldn't find this offensive, if I was still on her friends list...

Ia R'lyeh

Oh, I bet she'd just LOVE that.

She's basically a nice person - but when you come down to it, she wouldn't GET that.

objections, or points for further elaboration:
all beings do anything because they want to
some people are already in hell

Let me first point out that it's labeled as both a "one-liner" and "cute." I specifically did not put anything like "How true" or other similar crap.

It speaks to me only because, well, there are a large number of Christians that only behave like decent human beings because they are "God-fearing." They scare me, though I should on the whole not spend too much time trying to change their belief structure.

This may tie in to some studies that indicate that a tendency to follow a religion may have an evolutionary benefit.

As far as the "already in hell" bit goes - there's a modern position that views hell as more of a state of mind than a place. I'm not really sure of its genesis, because that certainly isn't the classical view.

I believe we all live more in our personal world-view than in any clear perception of the world as it is. And for some, that can be pretty hellish.

They scare me
They are among those already in hell, and not seeing who/what/where they are, they have equally little hope of seeing what it is they actually want.


One of the more... unfortunate... realizations I've had in the past few years was that

  1. One of the standard tenets of Conservatism is that there must be visible punishments in place to keep people from, well, running amok.

  2. Most people tend to think that the whole of humanity behaves like themselves.
Or, in other words, a huge number of conservatives are inherently amoral.

I was sorta hoping that as I'd get older, I'd get more accepting of everyone. But some of these people are really scary, and, yes, they're also stuck living with themselves, and expecting everyone else to be as amoral as they are.

Re: Indeed

visible punishments
Which is missing one of the principal notions of God, that things which are not visible are real. Among those are the internal processes and feelings of others, and therefore of self, and the very real effects of the invisible punishments which likely contributed to their blindness.

Re: Indeed

This is starting to proceed down a dogmatic path that I'm afraid I'm rather unwilling to follow.

Is there that which is unperceivable? Possibly. There is, by definition, no way to tell.

Are the internal processes and feelings of others real? Highly likely. They have perceivable results. It's either real or robots, and I have no reason to believe I'm that special.

Is there anything particularly magic about the self, which requires a God to explain? Well, we don't fully understand it, but again, that's no reason to be full of ourselves.

Will most people ever care about this stuff, and will it ever have much to do with their motivations? I seriously doubt it. Most people have their comfortable little corner of the world, and react violently when it gives any indication of changing.

haha did Lucinda fire you? What happened? ;)

I think it's funny, because any real Christian isn't good because they're going to Hell if they don't. That's a load of crap, and in fact most of the Christians I know are more conniving and "sinful" than you heathens ;)

Except me, of course. I polish my halo daily ;) Riiiiight.

Anyway it's funny. Christians can laugh at that....I think.....

I don't know precisely what happened with Lucinda. She trimmed her friends list at one point, and I was one of those trimmed.

She doesn't have much to do with most of us, anymore, anyway - and there was that rather unfortunate email I sent her way back when. I apologized for it, and she said she forgave me, but it's hard to get over some things.

My first exposure to Christianity was Catholicism. At least in that particular variant of Christianity, one can only get into Heaven if one loves God without expectation of reward. So children are taught to love God without expectation of reward, because that way they'll get into Heaven.

I swear the Catholics invented the mindfuck.

As far as more sinful and conniving is concerned - nah, I don't buy that. I don't think there's a particular difference in the concentration of evil between Christians and the rest of the world.

After all, TV evangelists are a tiny proportion of the population.

And you do polish your halo daily, by consciously attempting to do better on a constant basis. Don't knock yourself too badly for being human.

And I'm sure some Christians can laugh at that. Others will be offended, and some will consider it completely nonsensical.

All I know is that if I do something good for someone, I'm seriously not expecting any payback. Well, except for that whole "feeling good about myself" bit. At some level, we all do things for selfish reasons. It's just a question of which selfish reason we pick...

I never heard about the email you sent her. That's a bummer, whatever happened.

I agree with you on the Catholic thing. I was raised Catholic (well, a wishy washy one at best), and I am still in therapy/working through things that lock me up in self-guilt and persecution even though I know that is crap.

And I don't really mind being human. It's okay to be one of Jesus' um, "challenges" ;)

Yeah, it's a bummer. I'd been (rather overly) upset over something she'd done for a couple of months, and let it simmer. Then, when trying to email her about a different situation, I let the poison boil over.

I'm unfortunately very very good at poison pen letters. It was pretty nasty, especially since nothing in it was particularly untrue. There are truths it's simply not desirable to utter.

Not to mention that how they're presented matters a great deal.

Ah well. Water under the bridge, and all that.

From what little I know of you, I'd suspect that therapy would be needed more for how you were treated growing up than the Catholicism. I mean, most of the Frenchmen I grew up knowing were a lot more stable than most of the Americans...

I also honestly think you're far less of a challenge than you believe yourself to be. You're a good person, dear. Try to remember that from time to time. :-)